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Jimmy Hayes - Hayes Manufacturing

 

Jimmy Hayes
Hayes Manufacturing
Words of Wisdom
 
 
 
 
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  • Be honest. Never do anything under the table, in any form or fashion.
 
  • You can work your whole life to establish a good reputation, but you can lose it over night with one bad decision.
 
  • Find something to do that you know a lot about, really enjoy doing, and do better than anybody else. If you do that, you’ll make money.
 
  • When you own a business, you work hard—twelve, fourteen, fifteen hour days. If you are afraid of hard work, you don’t need to be going into business for yourself.
 
  • When you own a business, you are the last one to get paid
 
 



Entrepreneurial League System Mentor Interview
Jimmy (James) Anderson Hayes
Hayes Manufacturing
 
 
 
Date: 17 August 2009
Location: Pineville, Louisiana
Interviewer: Gary Perkins
Also present: James (Jimbo) Hayes, son, Hayes Manufacturing.
 
 
 
Gary:”Tell me where you grew up. Where did you go to school?”
 
“I was born in a little sawmill town, Weogulfka, Alabama on February 9th, 1928. My daddy worked in the sawmill. He had one arm; he lost his other arm in a cotton gin on the farm when he was fourteen. Daddy worked as a lumber checker at Black Brothers Sawmill in Weogulfka. Later, Daddy got a job with my grandfather in West Point, Mississippi, where my grandfather had a casket company, West Point Casket Company. He put daddy to work. When I was in fourth grade, we moved to Pensacola, Florida, where daddy tried his hand at a little casket business for two or three years. 
 
“My mother’s brother, Uncle Frank Ingram, had a casket factory in Alexandria, the Louisiana Casket Company. He offered my Daddy a job and we moved to Alexandria, Louisiana. That’s how I got into this area.
 
“I went through the old West End Grammar School and then to Bolton High School. I will tell you, and I am not ashamed to tell you, just like I told my children, they think I am smart but I’m not smart. I was gifted. In high school I failed a few subjects like literature, civics and things that I had to read and try to get interested in and remember, and couldn’t do it. But in math, algebra, and geometry, I made straight A’s, didn’t even have to study. I could always work a problem out, whether I used the correct formula or not. I graduated and went straight into the Army. The war was almost ending and I wanted to get into it. As a matter of fact, it ended in three months after I went into the service. They sent me to Puerto Rico, where I was in the Ordinance Division.
 
“I met my wife in a hospital because I got trench foot from not using sandals in the shower. They warned us, but I was hard-headed and wound up in the hospital that was attached to the Red Cross Service. While I was over there, I noticed a craft shop that was closed. I asked the Sergeant about it and he said, ‘Well, we don’t have anybody that knows enough about crafts to put them in charge to open it up so it could entertain and help the men in the hospital that are bedridden.’ I told him I was extremely interested in it and he unlocked the place, let me look in, and boy, I will tell you, they had beautiful brand new machines and all kinds of materials to work with. Immediately they became interested in me and wanted to know if I would accept a transfer from the Ordinance into the Medics, where they would give me a T-5 rating, which is an Occupational Therapist Technician, so I could run the shop.
 
“About the time I was ready to get discharged, we got to the point where we had agreed on a marriage. At that time I was only twenty years old and the Army wouldn’t let me marry because I wasn’t twenty-one without my Mother and Father’s consent. So I had to write home and tell Mama what I was going to do and get their consent. Mom and dad were deathly scared that I wouldn’t get to come home. Anyway, we worked that out and I got married in Puerto Rico before my discharge.”
 
Gary: “Let me just ask, it wasn’t too dangerous to be in the Army and take a chance of getting killed, but it was too dangerous to get married? Is that what the Army was thinking?”
 
“Yeah, it was way too dangerous for a twenty-year old to get married.”
 
“I came home. We got to New Orleans, where I got discharged with a little mustering out pay. The first thing I did was look for a used automobile. I found a little 1933 Plymouth sedan. I think I paid $300 for it. It ran nice; we put our belongings in it and took off for Alexandria. When we got to Alexandria, I started looking for a job, and found an opening at Morock Ford.  
 
“They paid me seventy-five cents an hour to rebuild carburetors, so I rebuilt carburetors for almost a year. We were staying with mother and dad. I found a house for sale in Pineville from Jimmy Konsinsky, used my G. I. Bill to buy it, and my notes were $47 a month.
 
“Ben Flynn had Flynn Manufacturing on Third Street and put out an ad for a machinist. The Army gave me six weeks of machinist training and I made top honors. I felt if I could tell Flynn what experience I had, he might let me work for him. Flynn had a contract to build removable grass sprig planters for the Levee Board. He had to make a jaw clutch, which required a machine he didn’t have. Flynn showed me the tools he had, gave me the prints, and said, ‘If you can figure out a way to make that jaw clutch, you have the job.’ He said he would pay me one dollar and twenty-five cents an hour.  I stayed up all night working out a plan, and figured out an unorthodox way to do it.
 
“From then on, I did the electrical repair work on the overhead ridge crane, installed and hooked up new machinery, built a few machines like an angle iron roller, besides taking care of customers and going out on jobs to fix customer equipment.”
 
“Flynn had a union man, an iron worker who got his leg hurt on the job. When he came back to the shop, Flynn put him in the little office to receive customers. He didn’t know much about machine work. Whenever  a customer came in, he’d bring the customer out and say, ‘Jim, come help. This guy wants you to take this piece of machinery, machine this off, weld this up, and then do this and do that.’
 
“I said, ‘Wait a minute Claude. You can’t weld that after it’s machined. You have to do your welding first, and then weld this piece on there, and then machine it.’ He said, ‘Bubba, you do exactly what I’m telling you.’ That’s the kind of stuff he did; we were crossed up the whole time that I was there.
 
“One day, when Ben was out of town, I walked in and old Claude was sitting behind his desk. He opened his drawer, pulled out a check, threw it down, and said, ‘Jimmy, it looks like you ain’t going to make it. You just ain’t going to make it.’
 
“Well now, you talk about a guy coming close to passing out. I couldn’t talk. I was confused, hurt, you name it. I choked up, shook my head a little bit, took the check, walked out, got in my car and went home.
 
“The first thing the next morning, I got a telephone call from Eddie Johnson , one of the boys at the shop. He said, ‘Jimmy, we heard what Claude did. Do you want your job back? Just tell me.’ All the guys had decided they weren’t going to come back to work. I told him I’d been thinking it over; never gave it much thought before, but I thought I would kind of like to do some work on my own.
 
“Bill Hawthorn and Joe Carbo tried to get me to come over and work for them. I had a garage beside my house and a few hand tools because I was making a hot rod. I went to the place where we buy our welding supplies, told Claude Williams I wanted to buy a little portable welding machine, two oxygen bottles with the gauges and hoses, a torch, and a few supplies, but I didn’t have any money. I asked him if he could help me.’
 
“He said, ‘Pick out anything you want; we’ll put it on a list, make a bill, and you can pay me what you can.’ That’s how I got started.  
 
“I bought the frame, wheel and motor for a Model A pickup for $10.00 from a junkyard, put everything together, got the Model A running, and put the welding machine in truck bed.
 
“My first job was for John Cade at Alexandria Seed. Then Mr. Cox would call me from the bakery at two o’clock in the morning, and I’d get his bread machine going.  I also took care of Martin Close’s machines, plus some others.”
 
“I started my business in 1958 and called it Economy Welding Service. Then I got into manufacturing and built my own apron brake out of scrap iron from the junk yard. I made the brake with a lathe and hand tools. About that time, Alpine Cable TV was coming to town, and had these trucks that would run cable behind them. I built the first headache rack in this area.  John Cade was putting in a new building on Broadway with a hundred foot grain elevator and needed a crane to set that up.  I thought about it a little bit, told John I knew a friend that had a wench truck with a ten foot gin pole. He said a ten foot gin pole wasn’t going to raise a hundred foot grain elevator, but I told him I knew a way to do it with a ten foot jig pole and a winch.”
 
James, son: “Now, daddy, aren’t those homemade wenches that you made? They had homemade ratchets.”
 
“Yes, I made the wenches. I kept on until I got a hundred feet up.”
 
Gary: “When did you move your shop out here?”
 
“There was little shack on the corner of Highway 28 and Pelican Drive.  I asked the owner, Mrs. Reynolds, if I could jack up the house three feet, add to it, and pour a slab. She agreed and I fixed it up real nice. Next month she wanted double the rent, $50.00 a month, for it.
 
“I found an old three cylinder bulldozer with a cable lift on the front, an RD6, that had been junked because it was broken in a place too expensive to repair. I bought it for a hundred dollars because the main shaft was twisted off right behind the engine. I tore it up, took the shaft out, and welded it, using a special type of welding I discovered while studying some foundry work. I would get it cherry-red hot and go to the anvil and hammer it at the forge. Now that’s what you call forging. Anytime you beat on a red-hot piece of iron you start lining the molecules back up. You need to keep it red hot while forging (hammering) it until your metal form a grain that goes right on through it, just like a tree trunk, which strengthens it.
 
“I got a job for Bill Mabry, who wanted me to build him a pond. I took my RD6 back there and built it; didn’t charge him nothing. Bill was building houses. I told him I was paying $50.00 a month for a house I built over here on the corner. He told me there was a lot next to Mrs. Reynolds that had never had been cleared. I asked Mrs. Reynolds if she would sell that lot and she said she wanted $800.00 for it.  I went to the bank, told them who I was, but they wouldn’t lend me the money. My dad gave me the $800.00. I told him I would pay him back, which I did.”
 
“Bill told me he could get me a loan through Winnfield First Federal, the folks he was using to build his houses. I asked him how much was it going to cost me. He said I wouldn’t have to make a down payment. I forgot what it was, but it was very reasonable, $25.00 or $30.00 a month. Bill said he would build me a 30’ x 60’ x 10’ building. I borrowed the money from Winnfield First Federal for the shop.”
 
Gary: “Where were you getting your jobs?”
 
“Word of mouth, regular customers, and then Cleco. Southern Gas found out I was a pretty good welder, and wanted to know if I would weld some gas lines for them. After that, I put in a new system in John Cade’s building, including new machinery and tanks outside. Tucker Robinson’s company, Distran, was building substations for Cleco. I put in the first Cleco substation in Marksville. It was a good thing I had my cutting torch and my welding machine, because there were so many mistakes. Then Cleco called me and wanted to know if I would prefab substations for them.”
 
James, son: “As far as I know, that substation is still standing in Marksville.”
 
The next big job I had was the 138 KV Station, right down here on the Red River levee in Alexandria. I had to put up two towers and a beam across, with four air brake switches on the top.”
 
Gary: “You had a crane by then?”
 
“No, I had a two-ton GMC truck. I built a hundred foot of boom out of light weight angle, put it behind that truck, put outriggers on it, and lifted all that stuff up with that boom truck. We didn’t have any ropes with pulleys on them, they just pulled stuff up by hand. The first crane I got was out of  Robert Price’s junkyard, and it had a twenty foot boom on it.”
 
Gary: “That’s where you shopped, the junkyard.”
 
“That’s right. I never bought a new crane in my life. James bought the first one. But, anyway, I brought that little crane over here and built me a hundred foot boom, made of two fifty foot sections that folded. The truck I mounted it on had a headache rack in the front, and a headache rack behind the cab, and I had a joint from where the crane went down right, and hit this first back piece. I unfolded the two pieces and put them together.”
 
Gary: “You made some money out of that piece of equipment.”
 
“It must have cost me every bit of a hundred dollars to fix that crane up. I worked seven days a week, night and day. Sundays, Saturdays, hardly knew what day it was, I was going full blast. On weekends and at night late, I built equipment in my shop. I found a lathe in the junkyard at the airbase that was all beat up. I found it, brought it to the shop, welded all the pieces they broke up, made some little pieces, and had my first good lathe.
 
“Then we expanded our shop with some trusses from Jack Mule’s Wrestling Arena on Lee Street. He brought them over here; I made the joists and finished the building. I bought a great big old lathe from Harry Gamberg’s junk yard out on 165 near the South Circle. I used to cut pipe for him out there. Whenever I found something I could fix, I bought it and took it home.”
 
Gary:” When you were growing your business, did you ever have a time when you were in a financial bind?”
 
“Well, yeah! I remember when people wouldn’t pay. I had money coming in, but there was one time when I had to make a payroll, and couldn’t, so I went to the bank and borrowed several hundred dollars, or either jumped in my little Volkswagen and beat the bushes, trying to pick up some money from people who owed me. I stayed down like that for a long time, but I never owed a bill and couldn’t pay it. The only thing I had trouble with, every now and then, was making payroll. James is familiar with that; everybody in business is familiar with that. My wife would be the only one that wouldn’t get a paycheck on the 15th. I said,’ by the 20th, I’ll get you a paycheck.’”
 
James, son: “When you own a business, you are the last one to get paid.”
 
“She would always ask why I got paid last, and I told her that’s a part of it.”
 
Gary: “Did your wife help you run the office?”
 
 “She got involved after a while. We did everything. Then I used Al Randow, a Certified Bookkeeper, to keep the books.”
 
“My biggest problem, and I realize it now, was that I never would charge enough—especially to the poor old guys that would come in here with their dump trucks and log trucks. I did a lot of free work or charged them just what I could. In the beginning my shop rate was $4.00 an hour for welding and $5.00 an hour to go outside and weld.
 
“I went as far away as Boyce.  E. C. Manning called one time about a bulldozer with a broken cast iron crankcase. All his oil flew out; he couldn’t start the bulldozer or move it. I dug it out with shovels until I could crawl underneath it to weld the cast iron, with that oily base on it. Manning wanted me to patch that sucker up so could put oil in it and drive it off.”
 
James, son: “That’s amazing, because cast iron is hard to weld. Welding cast iron upside down, overhead makes it that much more difficult, because cast iron has to be perfectly clean before you can even weld it. I can’t believe that you did that.”
 
Gary: “Did you ever encounter a problem you couldn’t deal with?”
 
“I can’t think of one at the moment.”
 
James, son: “Gary, if  I’ve heard it once, I’ve heard it a hundred times. When Daddy was in the business, everyone in town knew that if something couldn’t be fixed, the only place they could go was to Jimmy Hayes. He’d figure out a way to fix it. Dad had a very good reputation. He doesn’t say he’s smart, but he’s really a genius.  He knows metal. My kids know computers; he knew that about metal. When you talk about molecules lining up, he understands it completely.”
 
“My biggest problem, Gary, was getting the work out people wanted me to do; I always had a backlog. I never, ever, ran out of work and didn’t advertise one single time. I put my name on my truck, but I never advertised.”
 
James, son: “We still don’t to this day, which is unusual. We never advertise.”
 
“Cleco had two or three stations for me to build. My work with them had tripled. The shop was full of work, and I came down with what Dr. Rayburn called Meniere’s syndrome. My wife and I were driving from my sister’s house in Parish, Tennessee. Halfway home everything began to spin. I thought I was having a heart attack. When I stood still, everything began to clear up, but the minute I turned my head, it would spin again. When we got home, I went right straight to Dr. Rayburn’s office; he ran all kinds of tests and said he figured I had something called Meniere’s syndrome. It made me sick and nauseated whenever I moved.”  
 
“I was right in the middle of that new construction at Alexandria Seed. James was working over there. I told my son he was going to have to get with this man and keep things going until I got to feeling better.
 
“I had all this work coming and couldn’t see how I was going to get it done, but James was doing real well. The first week, I told them to call me if they had any problems, but I didn’t hear a word. I thought I’d better go check, and when I went down there, the whole shop was going smoothly. From then on, James more or less took the load off me.
 
“We really needed a crane at that time. I’d never bought one, because it cost a lot of money. James made payment arrangements with Horace Rand at American Supply for a new crane, which added so much versatility to our business.”
 
James, son: “It took a long time to convince him; he was afraid to buy, something that, at that time, was a quarter-of-a-million dollars piece of equipment. I sat down and showed him, on paper, where this thing could pay for itself. Back in those days they had what they called an investment tax credit. I showed him where we could buy the machine, and how what we saved in taxes would pay for it, even if we never ran it. So that was my way of convincing him to let me buy that crane.”
 
James, son: “Each crane, while it was being paid for, kind of snowballed, but the manufacturing end of the business just kept picking. It picked up all the way to the point now where the crane is what people know us for, because they see our cranes. Last year, when I checked, the money we took in the crane business was 5% of what Hayes Manufacturing took in.”
 
Gary: “I would have thought it was a big part of your business.”
 
James, son: “Most people do. They think that the crane is really our main business since we don’t advertise, but they don’t know what we have here. I was about 21 when I started taking over the business. I did it reluctantly. I was afraid. I was just a kid, 21 years old, taking over this business.”
 
Gary: “But you’d grown up working here.”
 
James, son: “Yeah. I started when I was twelve years old.”
 
“I worked to get this thing started. When Jimbo took over, it was just like he caught a pass, took off , and hit the goal line. That’s where I was trying to go.”
 
James, son: “I watched him my whole life build machinery from the junkyard.”
 
“That’s the only thing Jimbo did differently. He believed in borrowing money and making it pay. His nerves are twice as strong as mine. I didn’t have nerve enough to do that kind of stuff.”
 
Gary: “What kind of advice do you have for young people going into business today?”
 
“Find something to do that you know a lot about, and really enjoy doing, no matter what it is.  If you do that, you’ll start making money at, it because you’ll be good at it.”
 
Gary: “You obviously studied a lot. You said you found out how to do those axles. You figured out a method and you just kept working and studying.”
 
“Yeah, I read how the molecules in iron work, and what heat, chilling and making them hard does to them.”
 
Gary: “You weren’t only studying books, you also worked in your shop, getting better at what you did.”
 
“Yeah. The things I didn’t have experience with, I learned about them from reading. In other words, instead of you going through all the learning, you can read it, and if you can absorb it, there it is. I’d look it up in books like the Machinist Handbook.  It’s got everything that you want to know about machine work, and a lot about welding.”
 
James, son: “I want Daddy to tell you my favorite story about what he did when he was in high school and gas was rationed. The kids had to walk to school or ride the bus, but he had his own special way; he decided to build a car. But he didn’t have the money to buy a motor for it. Tell him what you did.”
 
“Frank Ingram had a casket factory next to our house. I loved to go inside. He had a lathe and woodworking tools. I built the first little go-cart. I took one inch thick white oak, crisscrossed it, bolted it together, put it in the lathe, and turned it round on the outside with a little wide groove. Then I took a rubber tire, and with a sharp knife, cut a two-inch wide tread, put it around the wood, and put it together with nails that go down, catch on, and hold the rubber on. I made my wheels. I drilled a hole in the center, and drove a piece of half-inch pipe through it tight. That was my bearings.
 
“I had some half-inch or five-eighths steel rod that, over at the casket factory, they used what they called a crushing board, to make wrinkled silk. I made my axle out of it. I rode a bicycle down to the junk yard, got me a few pieces, but couldn’t find a gasoline motor. At that time, they didn’t have a lawn mower with the motor turned sideways. Everybody used reel mowers.  
 
“Mrs. White, of White Real Estate, had a big yard on Masonic Drive. They bought the first power mower in Alexandria. It had a little half-horsepower mower on it, with a jackshaft to reduce it down to pull the wheels and turn the blades. Her son, Paul White, and I were real good friends, and he used to go over there and use that mower to cut the grass every week. And man, whenever I looked at that pretty little motor and that little jackshaft, my mouth just watered.
 
“I finally got up the nerve to ask Paul to ask his Mama if she would let me take that motor and jackshaft off and put it on my little car so I could ride it to school. I said I’d put it back on every weekend, cut the grass for her, and then take it off again. She let me do that, but gas was rationed, and you had to have those little coupons for a few gallons of gas. I could go back and forth to school for a week on one quart of gasoline.
 
“I drove that little thing to school and back. Boy, I was the king of the hill. Everybody gathered around it at the school house where I left it. One day, when I was coming home, the Town Talk man flagged me down. He wrote a nice little piece up in the paper about how a high school kid solved the gas problem, and told all about the lawn mower that held one quart of gasoline.”
 
James, son: “That’s innovation right there.”
 
“That’s what it’s all about—innovation. Of course, I made lots of them after that. I even built my own motorcycle. My first one was an old junk Indian that had been chained to a tree at an uptown service station for years. I bought it for $45, and rebuilt it.”
 
James, son: “You know one of the reasons my father was so successful is that he really, truly loved everything he did. He loved building and repairing things, maybe with the exception of crawling underneath that bulldozer. He really took the best of his God-given talent and combined that with knowledge, plus he wasn’t afraid of hard work.”
 
James, son: “Daddy just loved building things, and I still do too. I changed the business model a little bit, because the family got bigger. I watched my daddy work hard seven days a week, building things. I had a different idea about how to do the building. I didn’t have to start from nothing, like Daddy did. So, the second phase of Hayes Manufacturing was really from all the hard work he did to get the business going.”
 
James, son: “He had credit established at the bank, so when he handed the business over to me, I actually could go to the bank, and they would say, how much money do you want, instead of I’m sorry. He couldn’t get $800.00.  They saw that we were successful, that we were making good decisions, so I bought new machinery and borrowed the money for it, which is how business really works if it’s going to grow at a rapid pace.”
 
Gary: “Right! That’s the only way to grow. So did your business really start growing when the industry started moving here? Did that coincide?”
 
James, son: “I saw opportunities, and really took a lot more chances, but those chances were based on the skills we already had, ones that we developed. I’m still a pretty conservative person, just not quite as conservative as my Dad. Every time I wanted to take a chance, there wasn’t a business decision early on that I didn’t go to daddy’s house and sit down and said, ‘This is what I want to do,’ because if anyone could shoot it down, he would shoot it down, and then he’d tell me all the bad things which a lot of people don’t want to tell you, the bad part of the decisions. But he could look at it and tell me everything that could go wrong.”
 
Gary: “That’s right. Look at all the businesses that go boom and then they are gone.”
 
James, son: “I think that’s because they don’t want to listen to the bad part. I got my advice from my father; a lot of the advice no one else wanted to tell me. I put all the good with the bad, and that’s when I came up with the decision of growing Hayes Manufacturing to what it is right now.”
 
Gary: “Tell me about this growth phase, because we want our entrepreneurs to know that everything isn’t gravy. Tell me about some incident where you came up and said, ‘This was going to be it, I can’t get past this one,’ and how did you get past it.”
 
James, son: “First of all I worked very hard; twelve, fourteen, fifteen hour days. If you are afraid of hard work, you don’t need to be going into business for yourself. Some people think they can take the easy road. They think the people sit behind a desk and just have it made. It’s hard, hard work. There were many days, after Daddy got sick, that he would still come out and look at some of these jobs, and we would all be working hard. A lot of days I had each truck working with me, because, unless you inherit money, if you are going to make something happen, you have to work for it. But there were many days that Daddy didn’t know that I had the same problem he did—people not paying their bills, worrying about how I was going to pay the bills and still make payroll. Things were pretty sketchy at times. There’s a lot of worry, but the hard work is what made it pay off, helped us get through the hard times.”
 
“One of the most important things I made James understand, and he accepted it and went with it, is being honest; never do anything under the table, in any form or fashion. Tell your customers just exactly like it is, and like it’s going to be, regardless if you might have to take a little loss or a little gain, but never, never go under the table to make money. He stayed right on the top. I guarantee you, that’s one of the best reputations that Hayes Manufacturing has—they are honest.”
 
Gary: “I am so glad to hear you say that, because when I interview entrepreneurs to go into our program, I tell them, these people who have been in business five or ten years, that I am trying to help. I ask them, what’s the most valuable thing your company has? They will say they have this piece of equipment or that , and I will say, no, it’s your reputation. That is the most valuable thing that you have. You cannot lose that.”
 
James, son: “I tell my kids that you can work your whole life to establish a good reputation, but you can lose it overnight with one bad decision. And most of the time that decision is based on greed.”
 
James, son: “I took up where Daddy left off, and continued designing and building machines for companies. We really took a giant leap when I started making specialized machinery people could not get anywhere else. So, we have some special machinery we made ourselves, for our business, that’s one-of-a-kind. We make parts and do manufacturing that no one else can. If you can set yourself aside from everybody else, you can do well. It goes back to what Daddy said, finding something you love to do, because otherwise, you couldn’t go through the endless hours of work to get this. You couldn’t stand it.”
 
“Exactly, there’s the difference between work and play. I told everybody, and James knows this; I never worked a day in my life. You know, Einstein said that. He never worked a day in his life. He enjoyed every minute of it, and that’s what it amounts to.”
 
James, son: “I tell my employees that I want them to enjoy their job. If you don’t enjoy what you do, then you need to find another job, no matter how talented you are, because there’s more to life than just going out and just working your butt off, and coming home and saying I hate my job.”
 
“I want you to come to my little shop at home. You’d just love it to death. I have more grown people toys in there than you can shake a stick at, little machines I built to do certain things with because you can’t buy one.”
 
James. Son: “That’s an invitation that you can’t turn down. That’s a special place.”
 
Gary: “I’m going to do that.”
 

 

 

Note:  If you would like to read the entire interview, (19 pages), please email the Director of Web Content:  cledbetter@cenla.org

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